We don't recommend using anything to clean out the repair. Most of the dirt and contaminates are on or near the surface, so when you use your pick tool to remove the loose glass, you can also remove the contaminates. Any contaminates that have made their way deep inside the break are usually there to stay. Some technicians will disagree with this opinion, but we have done extensive testing with a variety of products and have not found anything that removes much, if any of the contaminates. Most, if not all solvents that dry quickly and do not leave a residue, will adversely affect the PVB. It's just not worth it.
Typically, only very large, very old repairs will have visible contaminates deep inside the break. Rain-X, Aquapel, etc., are generally applied in light coats, but may penetrate deeper if applied too heavily. Unfortunately, alcohol and other solvents don't remove these products anyway so don't waste your time trying.
In my humble opinion, moisture is really the only thing you need to concern yourself with.
Brent Deines
Delta Kits, Inc.
Moisture! Moisture! And more moisture!
-
Anonymous
Alcohol Substitute
"Heat is the only thing that should be used to evaporate moisture. Torches and hair dryers may work, but take a very long time. You want a tool that is designed for the task at hand"
I did not know automotive cig. lighters were designed for WSR biz. I don't have a dry star, but do have a different spin-off of this cig lighter tool. I also have several different torches, and have tried dry-out solutions also. The stuff I have from Janvil turns a nasty yellow color in the bottle after a while... but I do like their "cleaning" solution as a dry-out.
Someday I hope I find a reliable, consistent, 100% effective, and crack-free methodof removing moisture... Fortunately, moisture is usually not a problem... but this time of year it can be.
I guess I will have to do some more extensive testing of drying breaks to find the "breaking point" of stars and more complicated damage. Too much heat and they will crack. Too many heat/cool cycles and it takes too long(that is assuming the process works)... I have too much work to get done to spend an hour on a repair.
For you guys that always say it's quick and easy to dry a chip, what about a big star or combo with long legs... like an inch or longer. These are the ones most likely to crack with any kind of stress applied, let alone a drastic temperature change.
And, moisture in the tips of the star legs loves to stay there... my theory is that the same heat required to evaporate the moisture can also close the cracks tight so it seals the moisture in.
Ok, I think I am going to go out and unleash some raging heat on unsuspecting stars...
:"> :">
I did not know automotive cig. lighters were designed for WSR biz. I don't have a dry star, but do have a different spin-off of this cig lighter tool. I also have several different torches, and have tried dry-out solutions also. The stuff I have from Janvil turns a nasty yellow color in the bottle after a while... but I do like their "cleaning" solution as a dry-out.
Someday I hope I find a reliable, consistent, 100% effective, and crack-free methodof removing moisture... Fortunately, moisture is usually not a problem... but this time of year it can be.
I guess I will have to do some more extensive testing of drying breaks to find the "breaking point" of stars and more complicated damage. Too much heat and they will crack. Too many heat/cool cycles and it takes too long(that is assuming the process works)... I have too much work to get done to spend an hour on a repair.
For you guys that always say it's quick and easy to dry a chip, what about a big star or combo with long legs... like an inch or longer. These are the ones most likely to crack with any kind of stress applied, let alone a drastic temperature change.
And, moisture in the tips of the star legs loves to stay there... my theory is that the same heat required to evaporate the moisture can also close the cracks tight so it seals the moisture in.
Ok, I think I am going to go out and unleash some raging heat on unsuspecting stars...
:"> :">
-
Anonymous
made for wsr?
After applying heat with a butane torch, (shouldn't get the glass too hot to touch for a few seconds). Try applying the suction cup from your bridge over the pit. Not only will this help draw out the moisture, but if you are doing a repair while it is still raining(under a shelter or umbrella of course) it will keep any more water from entering the damage. My bridges have a flip lever style cup, but I'm sure it would work with any
cup. If your worried about damaging the cup from the heat. Your probably applying too much heat.
www.ohnonotagain.com
cup. If your worried about damaging the cup from the heat. Your probably applying too much heat.
www.ohnonotagain.com
-
Anonymous
Re: Moisture! Moisture! And more moisture!
I like to use the combo of alcohol and a butane torch ... cleans that baby right out and dries it at the same time
-
Anonymous
Re: Moisture! Moisture! And more moisture!
And for those of you that never read a label afixed to a bottle of alcohol. The words FLAMABLE should tell you something. Alcohol burns very hot. (Used in school labs, in lieu of bunsen burners). I would only use alcohol as a cleaning solution for my tools.
-
Anonymous
re: moisture
Yet another opinion,
My experience (5 yrs) has brought me to "believe" that the most important thing about "dry outs" is PATIENCE!
And that it generally takes about 3 times longer to go through heating and cooling cycles to make sure you get the moisture out and don't crack out or otherwise leave tell-tell marks on the glass.
The most common sense answer for me in most cases is to wait at least 24 hours after a rain or snow for w/s to dry out naturally. Although there are frequent cases where I have to do a dry out. It is not my favorite thing but I first have to set me mind to SLOW DOWN and patiently heat the glass around the bread with my butane torch. I'm careful to use a circular motion and heat about a 3" area around the break. Then I WAIT until the glass cools down and if it still has water in it I repeat the process. It take 5 to 8 minutes per cycle. I do not use acetone or any other solvents because I really don't believe it makes a difference. I think the idea is to evaporate the moisture and with all the controversy about solvents and the possible damage to PVB, then I'd rather not.
Also, on certain types of large or severe star or combo breaks, if I can't do the repair under controlled conditions, i.e. inside or otherwise out of the weather, then I simply pass on the job and offer to come back another time. I can do this because I'm a one man operation,and one repair done badly can cost me much more overall but one less repair job is not going to make me or break me, but I realize this is not practical for everyone.
My experience (5 yrs) has brought me to "believe" that the most important thing about "dry outs" is PATIENCE!
And that it generally takes about 3 times longer to go through heating and cooling cycles to make sure you get the moisture out and don't crack out or otherwise leave tell-tell marks on the glass.
The most common sense answer for me in most cases is to wait at least 24 hours after a rain or snow for w/s to dry out naturally. Although there are frequent cases where I have to do a dry out. It is not my favorite thing but I first have to set me mind to SLOW DOWN and patiently heat the glass around the bread with my butane torch. I'm careful to use a circular motion and heat about a 3" area around the break. Then I WAIT until the glass cools down and if it still has water in it I repeat the process. It take 5 to 8 minutes per cycle. I do not use acetone or any other solvents because I really don't believe it makes a difference. I think the idea is to evaporate the moisture and with all the controversy about solvents and the possible damage to PVB, then I'd rather not.
Also, on certain types of large or severe star or combo breaks, if I can't do the repair under controlled conditions, i.e. inside or otherwise out of the weather, then I simply pass on the job and offer to come back another time. I can do this because I'm a one man operation,and one repair done badly can cost me much more overall but one less repair job is not going to make me or break me, but I realize this is not practical for everyone.
-
Anonymous
An interesting debate
I agree with garywsr. However instead of not doing the repair if the customer can't or won't wait I just tell them I can't guarantee the repair. I just find that a repair never looks as good if you have to dry it rather than wait for it to dry naturally. What happened to the drought we had in the southeast?
www.ohnonotagain.com
www.ohnonotagain.com
-
Anonymous
Re: An interesting debate
when I said I used alcohol and a butane torch I was joking .... it was a pyro joke about burning things. I really just use a fireplace lighter to dry it out
-
Anonymous
Re: An interesting debate
I have used rubbing alcohol and torch before... I didn't have any flames or anything. You guys can sure be ninnies
mafsu commetn that repairs just don't look as good when you have to dry them out makes part of my point...
I believe that a lot of repairs done after "moisture removal" process are not actually dry. Even a very slight amount of moisture will keep a repair from looking it's best. They can be decieving... difficult to tell when they are actually completely dry. I see a lot of old repairs obviously done with water still in it.
I am sure we all have started on a repair only to find it had a little moisture hiding in it that you didn't notice. No red flag to alert you that there was moisture... only some hard flexing on the break will reveal "invisible" moisture sometimes...
mafsu commetn that repairs just don't look as good when you have to dry them out makes part of my point...
I believe that a lot of repairs done after "moisture removal" process are not actually dry. Even a very slight amount of moisture will keep a repair from looking it's best. They can be decieving... difficult to tell when they are actually completely dry. I see a lot of old repairs obviously done with water still in it.
I am sure we all have started on a repair only to find it had a little moisture hiding in it that you didn't notice. No red flag to alert you that there was moisture... only some hard flexing on the break will reveal "invisible" moisture sometimes...
-
Anonymous
Is it dry, or do you just think it is?
I agree with you about moisture still being in the break.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests