glassweld

Post your windshield repair tips, questions, advice! Note there is a sub-forum specifically for business development questions.
doctor ding

Re: glassweld

Post by doctor ding »

Frank;

I'm one of those guys who uses the darn cheap systems (think polylite or glass mechanix 20 years ago) and I do first-rate work. If in fact you acknowledge that quality work can be done with an inexpensive bridge and injector that cost less than half what a Delta tool costs and 20% or so of what a latest generation GlasWeld tool costs, why do you and your employees use and recommend the expensive tools?
chris arena

Re: glassweld

Post by chris arena »

I have an old GW kit that I bought in 1990!. Although I have been a part time, on and off again tech. This old stainless steel unit has served me well and has done hundreds of repairs. About 3 years ago, I bought enough new seals and o rings to keep it going for years. It works great!

Since then, GW has modified thier injector at least twice. However, in all reality and in my opinion, the change is necessary just for that reason. Change. but as far as performance, I don't seen any differance. Other than running over my unit with a tank, or exposing it directy to a nuke attack, it will probably outlast me.

I agree with you guys on the high cost of the new units. Does it do the job better? or faster? My old dinosor has handled every possible crack with ease. Yes, maybe it takes a bit more muscle to pull up to create vacuum, may be harder than another to slide around to position, but heck, I'm at least that patient to put up with the small stuff. Bottom line, It Works Great!

Again, I have just dusted off the old GW for another run. I plan on staying around for a while this time and when I purchase a 2nd unit, I will probably be a little selective on what the competition offers.

Chris Arena
Western Windshield Repair
doctor ding

Re: glassweld

Post by doctor ding »

Amen to that! Now I know that the following example is an extreme case and I'm not necessarily recommending it but I'm still using two injectors that were new in 1986. I made the bridges I'm using now from a piece of 1/2" poycarbonate that I bought from the remainder bin at a plastics distributor - 1 foot square sheet cost me two dollars. I cut nine bridges out of that sheet . I gave a machinist friend one of my 1986 injectors. He turned out nine stainless ones. Cost me a case of beer. Total cost for nine bridges and injectors - $48.05 ($5.34/ea) including suction cups and injector seals. That was 12 years and roughly 30,000 repairs ago. Now the threaded holes in the bridges that accept the injector are getting worn so soon it will be time to make another trip to the plastics place for another $2 plus inflation worth of polycarbonate. Most guys ( and some gals) are tool junkies and the manufacturers/suppliers know it - which is why they're all snarled up in this tools "arms race". Reference any manufacturers web site. What's advertised, tools or training? The marketing intent is to persuade the would be WSR practitioner (and a lot of prospective customers swallow it hook line and sinker) that the "system" is more responsible for competent repairs than is training. Which is why you have the GW/Delta kerfuffle, the dry vacuum vs wet vacuum controversy, suction cups vs vacuum cups, using multiple resins of multiple viscosities, automatic, semi-automatic and manual "systems", 30 minute DVDs and 20 page instruction manuals - if you don't have steak to sell, sell sizzle. When I was putting myself through college selling encyclopedias my sales manager took a bunch of four-color fold-outs about 2 feet square depicting science, nature, the arts, etc, everything that you'd find in an encyclopedia and spread them out overlapped on the floor indicating what were supposed to do during our sales demonstration. "The working man is impressed by flash", he said. (Flash is so last century, though. Today you'd say Bling) You want to see flash/bling? Check out GW's web site. Now come on. Be honest. Who wouldn't want to spring for one of those $800 bridges and that curing light after seeing that demo? Sizzles, doesn't it? One question. Where's the beef?

The most noteworthy tool advance I've seen in the last 10 or so years is the "Drystar" - and many manufacturers don't even list it in their catalogs much less making it standard equipment by including it with every kit they sell. (Disclaimer: I have no association whatever with the Drystar company - I just think it's no bullshit useful product. I wish I'd have thought of it.) Why is that? Are they jealous because they didn't think of it first? Is the markup insufficient? The best I've seen is that it gets offered in some of the high-end expensive kits but not in the lower-priced ones (by the same manufacturer). Why is that? Only the expensive kit user ever encounters damage that needs drying out? Or the manufacturers that don't carry it at all think that no damage ever needs drying out? Or that a bic lighter does as good a job? Or that including it would raise the target price point of the low end kit to an unattractive level? Well, if that's the case, here's a hint - put a $100 bridge/injector and a Drystar in the entry-level kit rather than a $300 bridge and no Drystar. Most everybody wil agree that moisture is probably the contaminant most responsible for ugly repairs. If that's true and if everyone agrees that cosmetic appearance is important, why is the Drystar optional equipment?

The "business opportunity" guys are more than willing to sell $1500 worth of tools (of which probably $750 worth are either way overpriced, virtually unecessary or could be sourced elsewhere for a small fraction of the cost - curing tabs being one particularily egregious example) and $100 worth of training. If these guys were really interested in the viability and reputation of the WSR industry they would flip-flop that ratio - $100 worth of tools and $1500 worth of training because in the long run training and experience are more responsible for exemplary personal performance than a box of blingy bridges/injectors - you can turn a screw just as well with a flea market screwdriver as you can with one from Snap-On. Of course, if they'd do that, and make extensive (like, say, 80-120 hours) training compulsory and prerequisite to purchasing any equipment whatsoever the posts on this forum would decrease by about 90%! Page back a few pages and reread questions - a significant majority are questions that should have been covered in training. One of my recent favorites was by a newbie who was having problems with crack repairs. "I watched the crack repair demonstration on the DVD," he said (roughly paraphrased), "And my result didn't look anything like the demo. What am I doing wrong?" Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture? Those 30 minute DVDs and the 20 page instruction manuals should be banned. Period. Frank EU posts photos of a few substandard repairs the other day and scatches his head about the reason. Got your answers right here, Frank.
Frank EU
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Re: glassweld

Post by Frank EU »

Wow. I just love the way you have described some of the problems in our trade. Well done! Indeed some of the manufacturers' marketing methods are part of the problem. Most problems can normally be solved, the problem with this one is; Try, for example, to arrange a meeting with all the manufacturers (in one room) to just discuss openly the problems and work out a solution.
I can tell you, and you probably know this already; it won't work for obvious reasons.
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Brent Deines
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Re: glassweld

Post by Brent Deines »

Doctor Ding,

Well obviously I have a little different take on things. While occasionally I do run across a technician who cobbles together his own equipment and is successful in business, in most cases that is the guy who spends all of his time trying to save pennies and always overlooks the dimes. Believe it or not most machinists don't don't work for beer, they want to be paid. Yes, some people have the talent and time to make their own tools, but successful repair technicians know that they can do more than enough repairs in one day to pay for a very good bridge and injector, and still have money left over to by their own beer. They also know that even the most unknowing customers can often spot home made equipment. Some of us care more about a professional image than others I suppose.

What comes standard in a windshield repair system is driven by consumer demand, so while some may think that every windshield repair system should include a moisture evaporator, and I include myself in that group, not every customer wants one. We encourage people to purchase the tools we believe are the most important, but it is our job to sell the customer what they want, not what we want them to have. No one is required to by a prepackaged system. I don't know about other manufacturers, but Delta Kits allows customers to buy the tools they desire and nothing else. We put together custom packages every day. You are not required to buy an $800 injector, but if the company who sells that injector can convince you it is worth the money, and apparently they sometimes do, more power to them. I will never buy a $100,000 car but I don't begrudge those that do. It's called freedom of choice.

Compulsory 120 hours of training? Please, this is not rocket science, regardless of what some of our competitors would have you believe. Over and over again we ask customers if they would like us to offer more training, and well over 90% say no. The other 10% say yes but only if it is free! Most trainees can't wait to get out an start repairing windshields after a one day training course. Again, manufacturers can only sell something if there is a demand for it. Now here is a guy that is telling me that he is too cheap to buy an injector yet he would be willing to pay for 3 weeks of training? Give me a break! Now I will agree that there are some who do believe that more than a day or two of training is necessary, especially those who also want some extensive business training. If you are one of those individuals that desires additional training we can certainly offer it, but there is a price tag attached that most people turn away from. There are also companies like Novus or Super Glass who offer much more extensive training as part of their franchises. People choose how much training they want based on how quickly they learn, the type of equipment they are using, etc., but you can't make everyone who buys a wrench go to school to be a mechanic.

There is a lot more to running a business than simply buying a product and selling it for a profit. Offering free lifetime technical support, money back guarantees, toll free phone calls, maintaining a website with a shopping cart, maintaining a forum, paying for a warehouse to store enough product to ensure same day shipping, training classes, trade shows, advertising, sending employees to school to keep up on ever changing HAZMAT regulations, research and development, and making training videos are just a few of the things that most people never think about when they buy a windshield repair injector. Sure you can copy someone else's idea and save a few bucks, but like I said before, in most cases you will find that in the time it takes you to do so you could have made more money than you saved.

You may not know the difference between a Snap-On wrench and a Chinese knockoff, but professional mechanics do. Again, there is a market for both, so I'm not one to say that cheap tools should not be sold, but to say there is no difference is ludicrous. Is a Yugo the same as a BMW? They both get you from point A to point B right? Some people like Yugos and I have no problem with that, but that does not make them a BMW.

As for videos and instruction manuals. I hate to be the one to tell you this but most people don't read instruction manuals and will not watch more than a few minutes of a video. Most of the questions asked on this forum are covered in instruction manuals and videos offered by manufacturers, but we purposely keep them short with the hope that people will at least get the basics. We also offer toll free technical support and training classes as do many of the other manufacturers, but still people would often rather post questions here rather than read a manual, watch a video, or call us for help. I don't understand this and never will, but that is the nature of some people.

I know your post was not directed at Delta Kits per say, but I really think it is unfair to criticize an equipment manufacturer, or group of manufacturers who bend over backwards to give what I believe is pretty amazing customer service to a very small industry, and make no mistake, in terms of dollars windshield repair is still a very small industry.
Brent Deines
Delta Kits, Inc.
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WillSDQ

Re: glassweld

Post by WillSDQ »

I have a question for all you Glasweld techs. Once you preform a vacuum on a break, is there only one step remaining? To place the resin into the break? Or do you have to cycle between vacuum and pressure too? The reason I am asking this is, if it is true and you only have to vacuum once and then place the resin into the break and nothing more, then GW truly has the best system. However, if you must cycle with the GW as well, then where is the true advantage? And telling me you keep the resin free of contaminated air does not wash for two reasons, if you must cycle. If you cycle then how does the resin know to stay clear of the new air being introduced? Is the new air contaminate free? If so, how are you guys doing this? Second, I think the promise of resin never touching contaminated air is BS, but only in this sense. I am new to this, but, I have come to realize that moisture, not contaminated air, is the source of almost all of the repair problems. Now, contaminated water? That is a real problem. Screenman almost always ask the same question, "was the damage free of moisture?" I think he is right. And I now think that is the real problem. And like screenman always talks of using compressed air to clean and dry a break, I too will do the same. I have two portable compressed air bottles that will fit into my truck. I will need to charge them on a daily bases with my big compressor. I think blowing out bad water is the way to go. Don't get me wrong. I think the GW system is constructed very well. The integrated UV light is very cherry. It is the type of addition that has other kit makers saying, "boy, I wish I would have thought of that!". But I compare GW's advertisement campaign to a Chevy Corvette. The Corvette is top notch and has almost everything a guy could want in a sports car. It sells itself. But then if Chevy were to advertise that the Corvette can fly through the air like an airplane, that would be silly and unnecessary. IMHO, GW should advertise on the merits of their system instead of promising something that is impossible to achieve. Moisture, not unvacuumed air is the real problem in our industry.
screenman
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Re: glassweld

Post by screenman »

WillSDQ , just a point I only use compressed air for drying out long cracks. Using the Glas-weld system to remove all the air from a break would not be posible on breaks with damage open to the surface like some starbreaks, or long surface breaks etc. This is where their claims are shot to bits, I certainly agree with you on the cycle part a very good point indeed, also as we all know maybe apart from GW that you cannot pull a perfect vacuum so there would always be some air left in prior to injecting the resin. Personaly having used many sytems I still feel Delta has the least BS behind it and does exactly what it says on the tin.
WillSDQ

Re: glassweld

Post by WillSDQ »

Thanks for the clarification screenman. However, unless you or others can tell me a reason not to, I am still gong to use compressed air to clean out breaks. To me it is common sense. Not only will it clear moisture, it will clear any broken glass not originally seen at first inspection. Dirt too. Compresses air first, then a pass with the Delta drying tool and I think you can't go wrong. At least moisture will not be the reason for a failed repair.
screenman
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Re: glassweld

Post by screenman »

Make sure you always wear eye protection when using compressed air. I have found that compressed air makes very little if any difference to moisture in any break other than a long crack. In theory blowing across the top of a damage should cause a low pressure area that should suck the moisture out, unfortunately this will only happen if something can replace the moisture, which in most damages is impossible due to the fact they are only open one end, the pit.
Frank EU
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Re: glassweld

Post by Frank EU »

WillsDQ; you're joking eh? Using compressed air to clear moisture and clear any broken glass? May I suggest that you are going to use safety glasses?
Okay, try to clear moisture, and debris, with your air tool, from star breaks, combinations and bull's eyes. Where do you think the debris and moisture is going to?
I am pretty sure that 99.9% will stay in the break and I am confident that it won't work. Screenman uses the air on open cracks only (just because some cracks are open to the surface) so the moisture (not debris) has a way out. The type of damages you are about to experiment with do not offer a way out. But this is a free world and you may do whatever you like. Also; why would you deal with all the hassle, just use the 12 Volt Dryer, instead introducing an extra step.
I trust that you will tell us all the details? Keep us updated.
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