How to avoid swirles in clear lenses

[abcinabq]

Don't know what "Modified Bens" is or do I find anything about on a google search. What are you talking about. I agree that doing the fine dick over again would probably take care of the problem but I can't see the swirles until I'm almost finished with the final buffing.
There has to be a faster way to do this work. I can't do it in wholesale numbers if it takes even one hour from start to finish. I need it to only take about thirty minutes for ever the worst lenses. I'm not sure if maybe I'm being to picky about my work or not, I've not seen anybodys work but mine in real time.
There is so much of this service to do everywhere I go, I see bad lenses starring at me, DON'T PEOPLE KNOW IT'S DANGEROUS TO DRIVE WITH BROWN HEADLIGHTS?
At least we do the service right and stay till it looks clear.

[pcb]

abc, go through some of the past topics on this forum and you will find discussion of ben's formula. It won't be on google, you will find it on this forum. I have also been using it for about 3 months now and have had great results. It's just a cheaper way to clear the lenses. The coating will help fill in any scratches that you may have left.

[Brent Deines]

Don't know what "Modified Bens" is or do I find anything about on a google search. What are you talking about. I agree that doing the fine dick over again would probably take care of the problem but I can't see the swirles until I'm almost finished with the final buffing.
There has to be a faster way to do this work. I can't do it in wholesale numbers if it takes even one hour from start to finish. I need it to only take about thirty minutes for ever the worst lenses. I'm not sure if maybe I'm being to picky about my work or not, I've not seen anybodys work but mine in real time.
There is so much of this service to do everywhere I go, I see bad lenses starring at me, DON'T PEOPLE KNOW IT'S DANGEROUS TO DRIVE WITH BROWN HEADLIGHTS?
At least we do the service right and stay till it looks clear.

Originally Delta Kits recommended using 1500 grit sandpaper for the final sanding process and then polishing before applying the coating, but we are moving more and more into finer grits as there is no question the results are better. The coating used also makes a lot of difference as some do a far superior job of filling in scratches and swirl marks than others. Frankly I am very concerned about some of the advice that has been given on this forum, particularly the use of off the shelf products that are not specifically made for the intended purpose, but I will post more on that later.

Tools make a big difference as well. We have tested dozens of different tools until recently have not found any one tool that works as well as designated sanders and polishers. The key to professional headlight restoration is having the right combination of tools, chemicals, sanding disks, and of course techniques. There is also one thing that you always have to remember when you are reading this forum. What one person sees as a good job may not be a good job in your opinion. What I mean by that is that regardless of the coating used stopping at 1000 grit is just not good enough for me. I am very satisfied with the results I get using a 2400 grit for my final sanding, but using a 3000 grit will even improve upon that, and depending on the coating used may be necessary to get the results you desire. The type of sandpaper you use also makes a big difference but I have a hunch many people do not even know if the sandpaper they use is made to work on plastics. Using the right tools and papers can certainly help reduce scratches and swirls.

Since I do use finer grits and more steps than many others on the Headlight Restoration forum use, I can't claim to complete a job in 10 minutes, but 30 minutes is very realistic for me including cleanup, etc., and some of my associates who practice more than I do are completing two headlights in 20 minutes or less. Again, I think using the right combination of tools, supplies, and techniques is the key, not only to getting the best possible results, but also in saving time.

I don't mean to offend others that don't feel the need to use as fine of grits as I use, or use different products. If you are getting the results you desire and quality that your customers demand we have no quarrel, but for those of you that are not getting the results you desire I think Delta Kits may be able to help. Using professional products can cost a bit more than just buying your supplies from a hardware store, but I believe professionals should use professional equipment and supplies that have been properly tested in side by side comparisons. We will not all agree on what is the best, but just as with windshield repair, saving a penny can often cost you a dime in time, frustration, and lost customers, so cheaper is not always better. We often sell our headlamp coatings to customers who have been using other products for years, and even get them to upgrade their tools after they have seen a live demo. Just as in windshield repair, the results don't lie, and seeing is believing.

Hope this gives you some food for thought. If have specific questions I invite you to call us as we have several reps on staff that are very good at headlight restoration. Just remember, your expectations may be higher than the expectations of others, which is exactly the kind of customers we enjoy working with most.

[t4k]

Don't know what "Modified Bens" is or do I find anything about on a google search. What are you talking about. I agree that doing the fine dick over again would probably take care of the problem but I can't see the swirles until I'm almost finished with the final buffing.
There has to be a faster way to do this work. I can't do it in wholesale numbers if it takes even one hour from start to finish. I need it to only take about thirty minutes for ever the worst lenses. I'm not sure if maybe I'm being to picky about my work or not, I've not seen anybodys work but mine in real time.
There is so much of this service to do everywhere I go, I see bad lenses starring at me, DON'T PEOPLE KNOW IT'S DANGEROUS TO DRIVE WITH BROWN HEADLIGHTS?
At least we do the service right and stay till it looks clear.

Here is the Ben's formula:



Postby harrellbenjamin on Thu May 08, 2008 6:15 pm

You cracked the code LOL.Urethane spar (theres your UV)varnish.The other can is mineral spirits .The yellow - x is also 2 off the shelf chemicals available in wallyworld LOL
OnSite Automotive Restoration

[Brent Deines]

With all due respect to Ben, he is incorrect about the ingredients that are in Dvelup's chemicals. I know a lot of people are using these off the shelf products and believing that they are the same or just as good a professional products, and it is quite possible that some companies are just repackaging off the shelf products for that matter, but that is not the case with the Dvelup 2 part coating which contains a catalyst, not a thinner.

This is exactly what I am talking about guys, too many people are throwing out half baked theories and recommending products that have not been properly tested for the application in which they are being used. We need to bring this forum back to a professional level!

Have any of you thought about how many consumers read this forum? You are going to put yourselves right out of business if you keep saying that all you need is a drill and a trip to the hardware store to be a professional headlight restoration specialist. This type of nonsense has really hurt the windshield repair industry, and now you seem to want to do it to the headlight restoration industry. Please think about what you are doing here. I've stayed out of this as long as I could, but not it's time to clean up this mess.

I'm sorry if this offends some of you, but this is supposed to be a forum for professionals. Let's start acting like it.

[Deacon]

Hey Ben. I've been using the "Modified Bens" formula from day 1 and have always gotten very good results, but I just don't like the fact that the Helmsman gloss has a very strong brown(ambering, as they call it)tint to it. Even when cut 50% with the spirits, it still looks like strong tea. Are you still using this formula and if not , what are you using? Do you think the tint affects the final outcome? Thanks for your comments.

[harrellbenjamin]

Any good outdoor urethane based spar varnish will work well.Try a few and see which you prefer.Even the Dvelup labeled product will turn amber after a few weeks of use in the can.I have lens that are Dvelup brand sealer in the area that I see frequently(friends-family) and also the off the shelf formula talked about here and both look the same after 2 plus years in a high UV environment.With the help of a good family friend that is an Industrial chemist in the coatings industry he verified my suspensions as to the make up of several popular brands of lens sealer.So I base my knowledge of the makes ups of these products on solid facts.Out of respect for Brent we will leave at that.Let me also state the Dvelup has the best headlight system on the market for the money and I would highly recommend any one entering this market to start with it and the proper equipment.After doing 100's of sets of lens you will come to a point where you will be able to read the lens.In other words some sets will respond to different things and you will be able to save some time.Some you will have to treat aggressively with yellow-x(or good pre cleaner) before starting.Some not.Some you will have to start with a very aggressive grade of sandpaper(3m HOOKIT SANDPAPER is excellent for and recommended for plastic).Some will only require a finer grade to start etc.I usually find that on moderate lens I use 400 or 600 (again experience will tell you) then 1000 to 1500 then 2000.I have a very good air sanding system 3" that makes it fast and simple.I also have a good compound (3M) that I finish off buffing the lens with also using a 3" air sander /polisher.Re-clean with yellow-x and then I final wipe with 90% rubbing alcohal to make sure my lens are contamination free.An extra step but will keep you out of trouble.The only reason anyone would use a finer finish grade of paper other than 2000 is because they were not sealing(see 3ms system)The sealer will fill any sanding from 1500-2000 grit.The lens are polycarbonate(same as bullet proof glass)and is very porous .It just fills and protects the surface.Its also like a sponge to the environment for contaminants so this is why sealing with a high quality sealer is a must.Dvelup makes it fool proof too.

[harrellbenjamin]

By the way...........Im Ben lol
Any questions please feel free to PM .I am always glad to help.

[Brite Nite]

Hey Ben. I've been using the "Modified Bens" formula from day 1 and have always gotten very good results, but I just don't like the fact that the Helmsman gloss has a very strong brown(ambering, as they call it)tint to it. Even when cut 50% with the spirits, it still looks like strong tea. Are you still using this formula and if not , what are you using? Do you think the tint affects the final outcome? Thanks for your comments.

I dont think it affect the final outcome but its better at lease it has a sealer on it for a longer hold up than just a spit and shine.
It might not be the same as Dvelup's but then it's the darnest best thing than what most any other people useing or selling from diffrent sites.

[Deacon]

Hi Ben and BriteNite, nice to meet you. Thank you guys for all your helpful comments to this forum. Do you or anyone else have any experience with the water-based spar urethanes such as Varathanes? Just wondering. Also, I found that wiping with alcohol before sealing tended to leave just a bit of cloudiness. I make my final wipe with spirits and then dry as well as possible and then seal. Since the sealer is cut with spirits anyway, theres no chance of contaminating it with alcohol. Just my observation. Thanks guys for your feedback, we're all here to learn and share.