for some reason a large majority of my post got cut off and to be honest I don't have the time or energy to do it over. So to sum it up, all I suggest is use all resource possible to make the most educated decision for your self.
Maybe some of the big players want to comment factually on why there resins are the best and the standards that were used in real world tests. And here is some food for thought...If their are no industry standards in place for this, Why not?
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
Resins??
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Anonymous
Re: re: resin
Brian, with more than 10 billion cars on U.S. roads, I believe that any "newbie" to windshield repair as well as a seasoned tech can find an auto salvage yard to do considerable testing at. Me, at my earlier years, would try a new resin on a windshield that I was surely positive would need to be replaced. Was this a fair test? No. But, if it held, and looked good on that type of damage, then it had a chance in the running on everyday stone shots. To answer or try to answer why the suppliers don't do testing and publish the results. You already hit upon part of it. No two breaks, even lab controlled are identical. Secondly, is cost.. Most of us complain about the price of gasoline, imagine what the price of resins would be, if they were ASTM lab tested and certified. I'm not saying, its not an important issue, but, I am saying in life we all live by trial and error. Its the same thing out on the street. If you can't correct your mistakes, you won't survive long. Which brings up the old question, If it costs more, is it truly better? Only in the eyes of the rich....
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Anonymous
re: resins
Glassdoc,
Well, I see where you are trying to go with this and I agree, but I still maintain that testing a resin on a piece of practice glass or on a damaged windshield in a salvage yard will not give you any indication of it structural characteristics. This is do to the fact that we can not duplicate the same forces that would be exerted from a vehicle in motion. So for now unfortunately it seems that to get this information which applies to resin characteristics which are directly related to its structural capabilities and for you and I ultimately boils down to the safety component. In the end we will need to rely on the what is available to us... the tech spec sheets. I truly believe every manufacturer has done QA tests to assure their clients AKA our suppliers their formulations our to their specs. What reputable supplier would not insist on this? Unless they are just repackaging the material. Even at that the could get the tech sheets.
Opinions are a good indication for appearance characteristics but they are just that...Opinions, you have yours, I have mine and the next guy or gal has theres and we are all entitled to them. This is why I think we need strict standards across the board.
Glassdoc, in one of your earlier posts you mention 2 manufacturers that formulate for all the suppliers. To know that, you must know who they are. Did you contact them to get such information? If so please share. If not please post their names and I will do the deed.
Sure you can use the expense theory and your are right the highest priced does not mean the best. Right now it costs pennies on the dollar to do a repair. I am not sure it would cost too much more for the industry to provide us with a uniform set of standards across the board. It would be worth it to me and take alot of the hassle out of resin selection for all of us.
I am not a sheople, so I present these things to think about and together we could have an impact on this very debated topic and any other topic we need answers on. I will not sit back and just accept something that needs improvement just because that is the way it has been.
Heres another big question...I am not a member yet of the NWRA our supposed governing body but, Why aren't they perusing these types of things to either set a standard or raise the standards across the board?
Just some food for thought, whose hungry.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
Well, I see where you are trying to go with this and I agree, but I still maintain that testing a resin on a piece of practice glass or on a damaged windshield in a salvage yard will not give you any indication of it structural characteristics. This is do to the fact that we can not duplicate the same forces that would be exerted from a vehicle in motion. So for now unfortunately it seems that to get this information which applies to resin characteristics which are directly related to its structural capabilities and for you and I ultimately boils down to the safety component. In the end we will need to rely on the what is available to us... the tech spec sheets. I truly believe every manufacturer has done QA tests to assure their clients AKA our suppliers their formulations our to their specs. What reputable supplier would not insist on this? Unless they are just repackaging the material. Even at that the could get the tech sheets.
Opinions are a good indication for appearance characteristics but they are just that...Opinions, you have yours, I have mine and the next guy or gal has theres and we are all entitled to them. This is why I think we need strict standards across the board.
Glassdoc, in one of your earlier posts you mention 2 manufacturers that formulate for all the suppliers. To know that, you must know who they are. Did you contact them to get such information? If so please share. If not please post their names and I will do the deed.
Sure you can use the expense theory and your are right the highest priced does not mean the best. Right now it costs pennies on the dollar to do a repair. I am not sure it would cost too much more for the industry to provide us with a uniform set of standards across the board. It would be worth it to me and take alot of the hassle out of resin selection for all of us.
I am not a sheople, so I present these things to think about and together we could have an impact on this very debated topic and any other topic we need answers on. I will not sit back and just accept something that needs improvement just because that is the way it has been.
Heres another big question...I am not a member yet of the NWRA our supposed governing body but, Why aren't they perusing these types of things to either set a standard or raise the standards across the board?
Just some food for thought, whose hungry.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
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Anonymous
Re: re: resins
Has anyone used esprit resins.Any thoughts to share?I
tried a couple of sample bottles and had very good repairs.It is more expensive.I'd like to hear from others before purchasing.
tried a couple of sample bottles and had very good repairs.It is more expensive.I'd like to hear from others before purchasing.
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Anonymous
Re: Esprit
As a manufacturer of windshield repair equipment let me clear up a few things. First, there are more than two manufacturers of resins. It is true that some companies simple buy a "base" resin and adjust it by thinning it or adding something to it. Second, tests and data sheets are like opinions, everyone has at least one. The value of these sources of information is debateable. This is the very reason the NWRA has had great difficulty in adopting standards for resin testing and approval. One test shows company A's resin is superior, company B cries foul. Company B then produces a test showing it's resin superior and so on. What matters is the results under real conditions, when your reputation is on the line. Third, there are four components to a repair (resin, injector, technique and curing process). Changing any one of these components can and often will change the results of the repair. So, one technician may use a resin, but "cure" it using sunlight and get a poor result. Another technician may use that same resin and use a PROPER curing lamp and get far better results! If you truly want to find the best product, make sure you are conducting your tests under the proper conditions with respect to all four components of a repair. A simple test any tech can do is to place a large drop of resin on a piece of glass, cure it, then see how well it: 1) sticks to the surface 2)how much shear strength it has 3) how much flexibility it has. This test alone will show if a resin has the "base" characteristics to perform a quality repair.
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Anonymous
resins
uswindshieldrepair or anyone in the know?
Do these industry leaders manufacture the resins they sell or are they produced by an outside vendor?
If they manufacture tier own resins, I would think as one of the industry leaders they would insist on such testing to ensure product consistency and integrity to help ensure and maintain their position in the industry.
If they have an outside vendor formulate to specs. then I would hope these industry leaders would be using manufacturers who are reputable and are capable of such administered and controlled tests in their quality assurance dept. or in the end they are risking their own reputation.
I cannot believe and have a real hard time swallowing that if someone would request the TDS(Technical Data Sheets) from a supplier. that any reputable supplier would supply something that really means squat. What does that say about the supplier and in the end the industry as a whole? These suppliers should be insisting on formulation accuracy, consistency and integrity for the very reason you mentioned above...their reputation.
Please keep in mind in case I am understanding what I think but am not putting it to post for all to understand. I am not talking about hit and miss testing with no guidelines that are used for comparisons in the marketing hype.
I am talking about the tests that are used for acrylics to ensure brand A,B or C formulation accuracy before it even reaches the selves.
Why is the NWRA adopting any standard? If one is not present, let's set one and all who wish to be counted on these guidelines and standards would get the seal of approval. Or are their to many manufacturers involved in the political area at the NWRA?
All I want and would hope we all want for a better industry overall and think we should always ask Who? What? Why? Where? When? and How? when things need improvement. I guess the suppliers have the power to enforce a standard and if us as consumers could stick together it would defiantly happen.
I guess I am guilty of caring about the industry.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
Do these industry leaders manufacture the resins they sell or are they produced by an outside vendor?
If they manufacture tier own resins, I would think as one of the industry leaders they would insist on such testing to ensure product consistency and integrity to help ensure and maintain their position in the industry.
If they have an outside vendor formulate to specs. then I would hope these industry leaders would be using manufacturers who are reputable and are capable of such administered and controlled tests in their quality assurance dept. or in the end they are risking their own reputation.
I cannot believe and have a real hard time swallowing that if someone would request the TDS(Technical Data Sheets) from a supplier. that any reputable supplier would supply something that really means squat. What does that say about the supplier and in the end the industry as a whole? These suppliers should be insisting on formulation accuracy, consistency and integrity for the very reason you mentioned above...their reputation.
Please keep in mind in case I am understanding what I think but am not putting it to post for all to understand. I am not talking about hit and miss testing with no guidelines that are used for comparisons in the marketing hype.
I am talking about the tests that are used for acrylics to ensure brand A,B or C formulation accuracy before it even reaches the selves.
Why is the NWRA adopting any standard? If one is not present, let's set one and all who wish to be counted on these guidelines and standards would get the seal of approval. Or are their to many manufacturers involved in the political area at the NWRA?
All I want and would hope we all want for a better industry overall and think we should always ask Who? What? Why? Where? When? and How? when things need improvement. I guess the suppliers have the power to enforce a standard and if us as consumers could stick together it would defiantly happen.
I guess I am guilty of caring about the industry.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
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Anonymous
Re: resins
Brian, your concerns are noble and worthy. The main reason no universal standards exist is plain and simple, money! It costs tens of thousands of dollars to formulate, test, and develop standards. The NWRA, as the only organization that represents our industry, has tried to do the very thing you want, but does not have the resources and, unfortunately, the co-operation of all those in the industry. As for the exisiting tests, you may have misunderstood the point of my comments. It is not that the tests are inaccurate, its the very way the testing is done that changes the results. One test may lead one to believe that one resin is far stronger than the rest. Then, a different test done by another testing facility comes up with totally different results. Remember, you come from an industry (Airlines) that buys $40 million dollar aircraft. Boeing has the money to do R&D with sales like that.
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Anonymous
Re: resins
uswindshieldrepair,
Point taken. This should not prevent us from persuing and setting in place uniform industry standards though in all areas. Sometimes progress is slow but that is ok as long as progress is being made.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
Point taken. This should not prevent us from persuing and setting in place uniform industry standards though in all areas. Sometimes progress is slow but that is ok as long as progress is being made.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
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Anonymous
Re: resins
Brian, since you are so avid in using "tech-specs". Suppose you enlighten the rest of us with the results that you have obtained. I mean, surely you contacted all the suppliers of resins and requested tech-specs from each and everyone. And then after reading thru, comparing, and checking them for correctness in content, you ordered from that supplier. So, what resin do you use and believe in, that had the best technical specifications available. And is lab tested and certified? And, when are you going to post the tech-specs for that resin?
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