Been getting screwed by the lighter

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impala-renegade
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Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by impala-renegade »

Using a lighter is a newer technique to me but one that I learned first hand by an experienced repair-person.

Anyway the legs show that they are actually not filled after a few minutes. Terrible! Various calls to resin sales companies do not believe it's possible.. Whatever.


ANYWAY I'm thinking that heat still may have it's place in helping fill slow legs, but maybe the legs have to cool all the way while still under pressure?? What do you guys think? I would buy a heatsink and use it after the lighter.

I have another quick QUESTION too.. As bad as the lighter is, and many of you say it is.. It still seems it's the best/only way to fill air pockets in the center of the chip.. (use after legs are filled) Do you guys use it after the legs are all filled to remove that air? I'd still like to cool it under pressure.

LATER
Glasseye
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by Glasseye »

The only time I use heat is when I am prepping the damage to remove moisture before commencing repair. If a leg is being stubborn, I normally flex the glass from the inside, with finger or thumb, using a steady or a pulsing pressure to provide a pumping action which will help the resin flow. I would suggest you practice this technique on a scrap glass, to get the feel of the flexing and how far you can apply the pressure.
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by t4k »

impala-renegade wrote: ANYWAY I'm thinking that heat still may have it's place in helping fill slow legs, but maybe the legs have to cool all the way while still under pressure??
Must cool prior to making the repair.
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by GlassStarz »

Using the lighter creates a false look of complete repair. Take your time use vacuum and pressure throw the lighter away.
screenman
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by screenman »

Depending on the style of break depends on where you flex it from, sub-surface from outside, surface from inside. Think about it and you will soon understand why I say this.

/\ pushed from below closes II pushed for below opens.

Not the best diagrams I know, I could maybe do a picture if anyone does not understand the simplicity of the context.
impala-renegade
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by impala-renegade »

I can't get those small black air pockets in the center of the chip to change with pressure and vacuum, but am able to do so with the lighter easily, so I would like to continue to use that technique..

My plan is to fill the legs first w/o heat, and to use a heat sink to cool the chip after I do work out any center black air pockets with lighter.
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Brent Deines
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by Brent Deines »

I think temperature control, both heating and cooling, has its place however something you said in your original post is very telling. If you apply too much heat the glass will expand, effectively closing the cracks, so while they may appear to be filled while hot, as they cool and the glass contracts they will open back up again. If you had called me I would certainly not have told you what you explained was impossible. It is a problem we hear about all the time from both experienced and inexperienced technicians who are not using heat correctly. I did it myself when I first got started but quickly learned over heating is a very ineffective practice.

While I believe heating from outside is much better than heating from inside and I believe that avoiding the use of a lighter whenever possible is a good practice, I do not believe using a lighter is necessarily a bad thing. In fact, because the noise of 10 hair dryers going in a small room at the same time makes it impossible to hear the instructors, we often use lighters in our training classes to demonstrate how temperature control can be used effectively. As long as you heat a large area around the damage, do it slowly, do not overheat the glass, and cool the glass prior to curing, temperature control has its place. Please keep in mind I am talking about controlling the temperature of the glass so you are working in the optimal temperature range. This may mean warming the glass but also may mean cooling the glass. I am not talking about super heating the glass to make the damage "appear" to be properly filled.

Having said that, you also made a statement about using heat to get rid of small black air pockets in the center of the chip that is troubling to me. That is not an appropriate use of temperature control in my opinion and is a technique I never use and never recommend. If you cannot get air out of the center of a chip you have other things going on that need to be addressed. I would have to hear more about your equipment and your procedure to provide any additional assistance with that but I agree with GlassStarz that using the lighter "incorrectly" creates a false look of complete repair, and I agree with t4k that if you do heat up the damaged area beyond the temperature of the surrounding glass you must cool prior to repairing, or at least prior to curing, and I agree with screenman and glasseye that flexing, if done correctly, may be beneficial in getting the resin to flow into tight areas, however I don't think any of those things are likely to get the air out of the "center" of the damage.

I have too many questions and not enough time to go into more detail on the forum today but I would be happy to try to help you by phone if you want to give me a call.
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kentcrossfit
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by kentcrossfit »

I too sometimes get those air bubbles in the center and would like to know how to fill them. I have the anniversary kit and go through all the cycles but there is sometimes still very, very small air pockets in the center when I inspect prior to curing. Could anyone give me some suggestions on getting these air pockets filled after I've discovered them when inspecting prior to curing?
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by screenman »

Slide the bridge back on with a lot less pressure on the injector seal, most guys use a lot more here than is required.
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Brent Deines
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Re: Been getting screwed by the lighter

Post by Brent Deines »

You will have to be more specific but since you are using a DKI system I recommend calling for tech support so we can ask a number of questions to narrow down the possibilities, one of which screenman mentioned. If you are still having problems don't hesitate to call again. We have regular meetings to discuss tech support issues and remedies so I think our staff is very helpful and quite good at diagnosing problems over the phone but you can always ask to speak with me if you don't find that to be the case.
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