Equipment and Resin

Post your windshield repair tips, questions, advice! Note there is a sub-forum specifically for business development questions.
bill lambeth
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by bill lambeth »

What color is the laminate ? We know the glass is clear ! And the laminate is not ! Correct? Heck I got to go ! To be continued ! Big green blowing my phone up :D
screenman
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by screenman »

Bill that is not always the case, often the glass has the overall tint with a top tint being in the PVB. Or so the manufacturers told me when I questioned them about it, glass manufacturers that is not resin one's.
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by kmuise »

I've been using NVS Optikleer bridges for the last 17 years but once my taxes come back I'm going to get a couple of Delta Kits B150's.
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Brent Deines
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by Brent Deines »

bill lambeth wrote:What color is the laminate ? We know the glass is clear ! And the laminate is not ! Correct? Heck I got to go ! To be continued ! Big green blowing my phone up :D
Correction, in the old days the use of clear glass was common for windshields but almost all windshield glass these days is solar green. The PVB is actually clear, or nearly clear, except at the top of "shaded" windshields, in which case the PVB is clear except for the top few inches where the PVB is colored, usually dark blue or dark green. Bronze and grey glass are also used in some vehicles but the vast majority use solar green.

This is why when you repair severe damage in the shade band at the top of the windshield it will usually be nearly invisible from the outside but from the inside it may be quite apparent, often much lighter than the shade band. In this case a very dark blue or green tinted resin may improve the appearance from inside the vehicle but most technicians tell us this is a rare enough occurrence that they cannot justify purchasing two or more special resins just for that purpose.

We have sold colored resins for years but they are not very popular and after conducting "blind" testing we determined there was no benefit. The way the tests were set up were as follows:

1) Bullseyes were created side by side on the same windshield, then filled with green, blue, grey, amber and clear resins.

2) Test subjects who did not know which resin was used in each break were asked to identify which color of resin was used in each break.

3) Test subjects were also asked to pick out which repair looked the best.

4) The test was repeated three times.

5) The complete set of tests was repeated using star breaks instead of bullseyes.

Results: All test subjects admitted they were just guessing on the colors and none were able to guess all the colors correctly, nor was there any consistency in their guesses from one test to the next. There was also no consistency in their choices for the "best" repair.

Conclusion: In our opinion there is no benefit to using colored resins, except that the manufacturer gets to sell you more product. :D

Since there are several different colors of glass used in windshields and many variations of each of those colors, I believe using a clear resin is the least likely to be noticeable. If you have ever used a wood filler you know how difficult it is to get the perfect match. They make colored glues but in most cases a glue that dries clear is preferred when bonding two wood surfaces together because you can almost always see the bond line when using a colored glue.

We still have a few customers who purchase colored resins from us but the vast majority of our customers who have run blind tests of their own have come to the same conclusion we did. Getting objective feedback is always valuable in testing any new product in my opinion and the more identical testing you can do the better.

I don't say any of this to deter anyone from using colored resins if that is your preference, just setting the facts straight on the color of the glass and PVB used in modern windshields and passing on our colored resin test results.
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bill lambeth
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by bill lambeth »

Brent that is good info ! I guess in my mind I am thinking that the gray will blend the skeleton to less noticeable . You are right about the company selling you more product but you got put some kind of resin in regardless . I will agree that the tinted resin is probably a placebo effect . I guess my point is ! It cant hurt anything and if it is the same price what the heck ! I do wonder if it hurts to mix different viscosity and tint with each other besides naturally thicker being slower.
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Brent Deines
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by Brent Deines »

I agree using a tinted resin doesn't hurt anything if that is your preference and you are getting the desired results.

I recommend checking with the mfg before mixing resins of different viscosity or tint. The formulations may be very similar and therefore compatible but that is not necessarily the case.

One thing I have learned over the years is that making one change likely causes other changes in the chemistry that you may not be able to see. Change the viscosity and you may very well change the curing speed, tensile strength, elasticity, or even the shelf life. You might not notice any of these things immediately unless you have them laboratory tested but it could have an effect on your repair quality over the long term.
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by h2oman »

Wow, you folks are all over the place with Resin. I am new (starting over again) but I made a ok living doing wr back in the 90's. I am amazed about all the talk about Resin's. For now I am using what came with my Delta kit. The Magnibond resin, Premium Pit Plus resin and the Premium Pit Polish. So for me or any other newbie, why all the thickness and shades of resin? Just curious.......
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Brent Deines
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by Brent Deines »

h2oman, I use the resin that came with your DKI system as well. I don't use other viscosities or tints because after 27 years or repairing windshields and countless hours of testing I don't see a benefit to using them, so with few exceptions I don't recommend them to you or anyone else. I have used these resins in areas where temperatures are well over 100 degrees in the summer and below 0 in the winter and I have complete confidence in them. I only recommend what I believe in and use personally.

However, many of our customers have different personal preferences based on the type of system they use, where they received their training and their own personal experience, so we do our best to accommodate their needs by providing a variety of high quality resins. While I don't believe they are necessary, there is nothing wrong with using a higher viscosity resin in hot weather or tinted resin for repairs in the shade band. It's like choosing a Ford a Chevy, you may buy one or the other because of the advertising or the recommendation of a friend, but it is how well it performs for you over the long term that will determine which one you buy the next time around and obviously there will always be those who prefer Fords and those who prefer Chevys.

Acid free resins have also become increasingly popular over the past decade or so. Just because a resin is labeled "acid free" does not necessarily mean there that it does not contain any acid, but simply that the acid content is below required reportable quantities. It's important to understand that acid is used to improve bonding strength so if you look at the TDS for acid free resins you will find the tensile strength is not as high as an acid based product and often have a far lower elasticity rating "more brittle". Will you notice these differences when you use acid free products? Considering the number of customers who purchase acid free products from Delta Kits and our competitors I would have to say that in most cases the difference is not immediately noticeable to the average windshield repair technician. Still, I think it is important to know why most manufacturers number one recommendation is still an acid based product. One final note about acid based resins is that there have been a lot of advancements over the years and many acid based resins are now very safe to work with but there are still a few brands that will take the skin off your fingers if you are not careful. The products that are dangerous to use are less expensive to manufacture so they are sold to the general public for a very low price, but anyone who has experienced an allergic reaction to one of these products will tell you the trade off is not worth it.
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bill lambeth
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by bill lambeth »

Allergic reaction can happen with high end resins also! The best advice someone (Brent) every gave me about resin" do not do repairs with out gloves on! " 5 years ago my immune system broke down and I could not hardly use my hands. The resin was either Magnabond or LR. Till this day I will NOT do repairs without gloves!
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Brent Deines
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Re: Equipment and Resin

Post by Brent Deines »

I suppose you are right, an allergic reaction "can" happen with any chemical, including high end acid based and acid free resins, so your point is well taken; always take proper precautions to protect your skin when using any chemical. That said, I can't think of a time in the past 10-15 years when we have had a customer who has used a Delta Kits resin exclusively who has had a problem and I suspect our major competitors have a similar track record. It's hard to determine which product causes the problem if a technician uses a variety of different brands of resin but on the rare occasion a customer does report an allergic reaction we have almost always been able to trace the first instance back to a product with a very high percentage of Methacrylate, usually received as a sample or purchased because of the ultra low price. Ultimately a very high price to pay to save a few cents per repair but a nearly irresistible temptation at times.

Bill you know better than anyone, once you have experienced an allergic reaction you may not be able to use anything except an acid free resin, or in rare cases not even that, so it's best to always wear nitrile gloves, use a good barrier cream, or both. Thanks for the reminder!
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